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Little Brother On Dave Of De La Soul, Doja Cat & The Legacy Of ‘The Listening’

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In sequel of our discussion with Little Brother to honor the 20th Anniversary of their launching album The Listening, we discuss the lyrical developments and tributes threaded throughout the tunes, the enduring impression they have actually left on groups that followed, who their “little brothers” are and losing among their most significant impacts.

HHDX: On “Whatever You Say” did you prepare for that verse not to rhyme?

Phonte: Yeah, that certainly was the strategy. I keep in mind when I took a seat and began composing it, it was greatly influenced by Slum Village. Fantastic, Vol. 2 was simply an album that I played into the ground. I played the MP3 tags off that album. I can’t worry it enough, you understand what I imply?

And so, among the important things that was actually motivating for me was simply the manner in which they, as MCs,  bundled space and rhythm. It wasn’t a lot what they were stating, however it was the cadences and the method they sort of ended up being … The manner in which T3 and Baatin, they ended up being like instruments. You understand what I imply? And Dilla too, naturally. And so, that was sort of the idea of entering into that verse. I resembled, “All right, I kind of want to just play with what 9th has done with the beat. I kind of want to play around that.”

And I sort of begun composing it and it wasn’t rhyming, and I resembled, “All right, I think I can do this for a whole verse.” And so I simply did it. It felt right for the lively ambiance of the tune, since If you’re going to do the “girl joint,” if you’re going to do the woman record, you still desire it to be lively and enjoyable, you understand what I imply? You don’t wish to make “Wildflower” by Ghostface, you understand what I imply?

Speaking of the woman records, what influenced tunes like “Nobody But You,”/ “Love Joint Revisited”/ “The Way You Do It” and so on.?

Big Pooh: I was attempting to get some women, guy. I’m a shy, shy person.I wouldn’t call myself no gamer, no mack. No head out back then, “Yo, I’m going out, I’m going to come back with three, four numbers.” That wasn’t me. So doing the “girl records” was a method for me to sort of audition myself, so to speak, for the women, like, “Hey, you get to know me, this is me” kind of thing. Because I wasn’t increasing approaching no one. So, yeah. I imply, for us, we remained in our early 20s, you understand what I imply?

Phonte: Yeah, Phon Tigallo was the name, yeah, I made it. I imply, I forgot who it was. It may’ve resembled either Dho or 9th, however they was calling me “Yo, Phon Tigallo the Rap Gigolo.” That was simply, “Oh, man, go find Tigallo the Rap Gigolo.” That was where it began. And then ultimately it got reduced simply to Tigallo and I resembled, all right, whatever.

But yeah, I imply, there were not a great deal of women at the time when we were composing the album.  There were no women to mention. You understand what I’m stating? It wasn’t up until the album came out and we went on trip, and it resembled, “Oh. Oh.”

Phonte: It was a, what did they state? It was an objective. It was a symptom! “You know what? I’m going to manifest me some hoes, n-gga,” since I have none. Like, none.

Which leads me to “Groupie Pt 2.” and I questioned what made you people opt for Rob Base and E-Z Rock’s “It Takes Two” for the hook?

Phonte: Nate Dogg was my n-gga. Rest in peace, Nate Dogg. So I simply had the idea. I resembled, “Okay. I want to sing like Nate Dogg on this hook, but it has to be something else. It has to be something.” And I resembled, “Man, what if I sang the Rob Base and E-Z Rock joint like Nate Dogg?” Again, simply an idea. You understand what I imply? So I simply did it, and I simply took a look at Pooh, like, “Y’all fuck with it?” They resembled, “Yeah.” I resembled, “All right.”

Big Pooh: Which was paradoxical, which they didn’t understand, or is learning now, Rob Base and DJ E-Z Rock was among the couple of rap tunes my mom would really enable me to listen to, that she learnt about.

Phonte: Now “It Takes Two” was a mom jam. 

You start “The Getup” stating “This is for fucking Gerald.” For those who may not understand, who’s Gerald?

Phonte: Gerald, fucking Gerald. I simply had lunch with fucking Gerald a couple weeks back. So Gerald is Gerald Patrick Williams, likewise called Eccentric. He was a …

Big Pooh: One of the early manufacturers in the Justus League.

Phonte: Me and him utilized to simply formulate all the time, do records. He produced “The Getup.” Maybe a couple years after that he had a hard disk drive crash and lost whatever. Lost all his beats, lost whatever. So he wound up going to law school and now he’s a lawyer. Him and his partner, they’re actually dear buddies of mine. So yeah, however that’s fucking Gerald, guy. That’s him.

What did you believe when you saw that Doja Cat was bigging y’all up on Instagram for “Whatever You Say”?

Phonte: To see somebody like Doja Cat simply to state, “Yo, I’ve listened to y’all’s shit, this is the best verse ever,” it’s simply actually humbling. To me, it’s simply a testimony of simply not understanding how far your music is going to go. And even if something in 2003, something that when you put it out, it seemed like, “Damn, people sleeping on this, they don’t get it, they don’t get it,” for twenty years later on, among the most significant pop stars on the planet, like legitimate pop stars to be like, “No, this is the shit. Y’all need to get up on this.” Yeah, guy, it’s very humbling. And I’m simply grateful that we’re still around to get those flowers, and I’m happy that our music simply stood that test of time. That individuals can value it now, more so than they did at that time.

Big Pooh: I utilize it as a good mentor tool for the young artists that I coach, because you never ever understand who’s listening. So you need to work like everybody is listening, since you never ever understand. And when again, years later on. 

Because that’s something that we constantly observed, when we would satisfy various artists that were at the top of the charts throughout their particular run, and they’ll reverse and inform us how they’re fans of ours. And we’d resemble, “What?” Like, “Oh, you heard my shit?!”  So, you simply never ever understand who’s listening, and more individuals are listening than what you believe. Numbers do lie. They don’t constantly inform you what’s going on. They can’t inform you what the effect actually is.

Phonte: You may have offered a hundred. You may have offered 20,000, however 200,000 may have heard it. You understand what I imply?

Big Pooh: So when I saw Doja Cat, I resembled, “Oh shit!” Like Te said, that’s one of the most significant pop stars of the world, fam. Like, this is fucking nuts. And then she goes on and does the verse and after that says, “I’m having a May The Lord Watch listening party, come join me.” “What?!”

Phonte: Mm-hmm. She didn’t need to do that at all.

Big Pooh: We don’t understand her. You understand what I’m stating? I had actually never ever satisfied her.

Have you talked to her at all considering that?

Phonte: Yeah, yeah, we texted for a bit. It was around the time, since I wish to state soon after she made that video, that was when I believe … She was on trip, and I believe she needed to stop the trip since of COVID and things. But we texted quickly, and I simply said, “Look, thank you. I appreciate it.” But it was simply quick. But besides that, we had no relationship. It was completely, it came out of no place.

But kid, the important things I concerned understand is that, in the music business, the artists and the business individuals are sort of various because the artists are basically, no matter what sort of music they make, they’re still basically sort of geeks. You understand what I’m stating? And so, they’re studying. They’re constantly studying. 

You discussed mentorship. Does Little Brother have little bros?

Phonte: Absolutely.  You got Pac Div. They’re certainly somebody I think about a fruit from my tree, like shout-out to Swift D, Like, Mibbs. You understand what I’m stating? Pac Div, they were sort of among the very first groups I saw, and I resembled, “Okay, yeah, this is definitely … The DNA is strong.” You understand what I imply? They’re certainly fruit from our tree. I constantly like those bros, guy.

Of course the huge 3: J. Cole, Kendrick, Drake, you understand what I imply? They are certainly all sort of fruit from our tree and took what we meant and took it to another level. Shit, Doja Cat now, obviously.

Big Pooh: Little Sisters.

Phonte: Yeah, we got some sis too. I imply, yeah, I simply believe, in lots of methods there’s simply some artists that occur and their function is to be a bridge. And a great deal of times when individuals take a look at our tradition, which was among the huge reasons we wished to inform our story simply in our documentary, was even if it resembled, look brother, this is not a sad story. You understand what I’m stating? This is not a sad story at all.

I believe individuals from the outdoors searching in, they look and they state, “Well, you should be as big as this person” or “You should be as big as this person.” And it’s similar to, for us, when we were younger, it certainly did seem like, “damn, why ain’t we getting that love?” Or “Why aren’t we getting this look?”  But now, sitting here twenty years later on at 44, it’s similar to, yeah, I’m living the life I wish to live.

I believe some artists are sort of indicated to be bridges. And we were certainly that bridge in between A Tribe Called Quest or a De La, and a Kendrick Lamar, you understand what I’m stating? Two artists that existed in 2 various period however still quite had comparable values. And you don’t obtain from Tribe to Kendrick, or you don’t obtain from De La to J. Cole, you don’t arrive without Little Brother.

That to me is, simply to be able to state that and being in that, that’s much better than any money, any whatever.  Our tradition is licensed and we still building on it. So, I have no problems.

Big Pooh: Yeah, guy. I remember we was on trip with Hiero, and A-Plus from Souls of Mischief. We was talking, I believe we remained in Boulder or something. And we was simply talking and he resembled, “Yeah, man, a lot of people that we work with or went on tour with us, they went on to be bigger than us, status and name-wise.” I remember him stating that. And then I take a look at Little Brother and I’m like, not always individuals we went on trip with, however individuals we might deal with or individuals that have traces of our DNA.

And simply how, like Te was stating, how we ended up being the bridge for a a great deal of artists that came right after us. They were enabled to cross that bridge and after that go on to be something much, a lot more. But they required that bridge, and we acted as that bridge for a great deal of artists, guy.

Phonte: Yeah, they actually were coaches. They actually were, Hiero, they actually were. Going out on trip with them, I imply, it was a refresher course in what independent Hip-Hop appeared like, what it actually appeared like as a visiting artist.

HHDX: We all simply lost a  Big Brother in Dave from De La Soul. How essential was he and De La to Little Brother?

Big Pooh: Very essential, guy. You understand, Me and Te spoke about this a few days ago. We’re really… I understand a great deal of individuals like to compare us to Tribe, however we’re more De La than Tribe, in our makeup. But nah, Dave, guy. I had an opportunity to explore with De La, as a solo artist, for a couple weeks. I don’t remember what year it was. But nah, Dave was simply a great guy. Very cool. 

I had actually put a post up, and I resembled, “I’m lucky I got to tell him what he meant to me as a young writer.” I understand a great deal of individuals went to Posdnuos for his design, however Dave was really amusing. He was really sharp. I simply think of simply how cool he was. You understood he existed, however he’d simply be cooling, observing, and enjoying things. So for me, guy, I’m simply pleased I got an opportunity to satisfy him, and talk with him, and trip with him. I’m pleased I got an opportunity to experience De La, not simply music, however who they are, and for Dave, for who he was. De La was certainly really essential to Little Brother, and to me, as far as hearing what we might be. Also, De La is among the uncommon rap groups that never ever divided.

Phonte: Yeah. To that point, that was most likely my most significant knowing minute, in regards to De La. We, in the early days of Questlove Supreme, like when we initially began Questlove Supreme. This was, God, this resembles 2016.  We wasn’t in no studio. We were speaking with individuals in Ahmir’s dressing room, which is generally like a fucking closet at 30 Rock.  It was around the time that And The Anonymous Nobody came out. So we had De La. It was simply Pos and Dave. Mase wasn’t there. 

Little Brother On ‘The Listening’ At 20 & Marauding For Ears

The thing that I observed was that each time they spoke, when they were doing interviews, Pos would be speaking, and if Dave began talking, he’d resemble, “Oh. Oh. My bad. I don’t want to interrupt you. I’ll let you finish.” Or Pos would resemble, “Oh. No, bro, go ahead.” You understand what I imply? I simply keep in mind sitting, enjoying, and looking, I resembled, “Yo. That is how they have stayed together for 30 years.” It was the most thoughtful dynamic I’ve ever seen, not to mention in between a rap group, simply in between 2 Black males in their forties, or fifties at that time, whatever they were. But it was simply actually a design of what a genuine collaboration appears like, which was something, for me, that actually notified my procedure, when me and Pooh entered to tape May the Lord Watch. That was something that I always remembered. Just seeing them personally.

I had actually seen them carry out in the past. I’ve been to programs. All of that. But simply seeing them, simply the 2 of them, simply taking a seat and actually offering space for one another, that was incredible. That was life blowing. It was life altering. So to see him pass away, when we got the news, it was insane for me, since he passed away at 54, and my papa passed away at 54. So it resembled, “Holy shit.” It sort of brought a great deal of things back up. But nah, it was incredibly sad, and likewise humbling. We remained in a group chat with Pos. You understand what I imply? Us simply shooting the shit, and having the ability to connect to our heroes, and having them state, “Yo, thank you.”  Reaching out to Prince Paul, and him like, “Yo, thanks bro. I appreciate it.”

Come on, man. These are individuals I was listening to considering that I was ten years old, dog. There’s no money. There’s absolutely nothing that can top that. So yeah, it certainly put a huge damper on my day when I got the news. I’m simply happy that they left the plan for us to do what we do, and I’m happy that they likewise acknowledged what we were doing as an extension of them, since they could have resembled, “Man, y’all niggas waack. Fuck out of here.” You understand what I imply?

It was mutual. That was simply something that was so stunning. So yeah, when we discuss twenty years of Little Brother, when you see artists like Dave, and when he passes away, and it simply actually puts that into viewpoint of twenty years. I’m normally not a celebratory individual. I’m not a huge vacation, huge presents, huge… That’s normally not me.

But for this year… Me and Pooh spoke about it. It resembled, it’s twenty years of The Listening, however we’re commemorating twenty years of Little Brother, since there’s a great deal of bros that we can be found in the video game with that are no longer here. Just the truth that we’re still here, still able to protect our tradition, still able to be in leading form, in regards to our craft. Still active, still healthy, still able to carry out. Still able to build with individuals we can be found in the video game with that are still left. I believe that’s simply something that is worthy of honoring. I’m simply happy that we’re around to get these flowers, since twenty years, it passes like that in this video game. 

Little Brother begin their trip March 3. Get tickets here!

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